Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Personally I was offended by the missing out of ' inspecting the chicken innards' for future trends. Usually works for me:D
A

Nice one MMD

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

No response to the points - not even from mmd ?

a.) Phil has been about those and other 'mouse-traps' for over 57 years.
With his wisdom, he asked me in '93 to join him to strengthen the venture.

b.) 600+ articles plus books since '48 did a good amount to get folks to come for a look.

c.) This is a Thread about the WoodenBoat Forum - not anyone's private website.

d.) This Thread remains about a Wooden Working Craft Forum.

And
e.) I assume that I am not speaking to the Board of Governors of the WoodenBoat Forum.

Easy there Erster, don't cry.
They told you what ? No, no you are not one of Santas Claus' elfs.
There, there have that pink mitten...

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Quote:

While Erster's pride of the 'find' is undeniable, the context is - as usuall the case in 'Erster-World' - all mismatched...

You are surely spending a lot of time on termites. I will not soil the informative thread but will add some imput here. What is undeniable and unmatched by anyone is a plot to spam the WBF from an office that represents a life time of work in the boating industry serving a world wide audience, demeaning the work that was also toasted by Wooden Boat just a few short years ago, 2007 IIRC, and also this year. For that many wooden boat people here are truely saddened and some pray for some closure to this. :(

Carl provided some imput the year and it stands to this day. I think there was also some disagreements even the the staff of Wooden Boat. But Wooden Boat respected him enough to provide a dinner at the boat show and just this year. Surely your actions and reactions are misdirected in these threads. Many folks have no problem discussing the pluses and minues of wooden boats including Phil in his few posts while being a member on this forum. While several older threads are filled some informative substance directed at boats built for specific needs, the larger picture shows that respect was given to one and all. Once again may he rest in peace and we all can also get back to talking about boats.

http://woodenboat.com/boat/?tag=phil-bolger


My Wooden Boat of the Week

Go to WoodenBoat Publications home page


Posts Tagged ‘Phil Bolger’




Rest In Peace, Brother Phil

Monday, June 1st, 2009 I hope you are all aware that Phil Bolger took his life last week, rather than (as he feared) descend into illness.
http://woodenboat.com/boat/wp-conten...hil-bolger.jpg
This photo is pirated, because our Library was closed and I couldn’t find the original photographer. To me, this is perfect Phil…. Looking into the distance, and figuring out solutions, with that beautiful smile…. that beautiful mind settling into yet another vision…
Did I love each and all of his designs? No, of course not. But each one — as he intended — made me THINK. I am not sure that any designer heretofore has set out with this premise in mind. Phil turned this into a fine art.
What was Phil’s favorite design? As he stated on numerous occasions, it was the Gloucester Light Gull. He collaborated with Maine’s own Dynamite Payson to build her. And here she is (that is Dynamite in the photo):
http://woodenboat.com/boat/wp-conten...ight-dory1.jpg Phil's Gloucester Light Dory

Phil was so much to so many people, and I can’t contribute much tonight to his legacy. He mattered a great deal to me, (and to so many others) and I am very broken up by his passing. Are there any of us in the WoodenBoat world who haven’t been affected by his work? I hope not.
Many people have been much more articulate than I in their remembrances — go to this thread in the WoodenBoat Forum:
http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97462
I will not dwell in matters of morality. This is not a case of Raskolnikov. This is an instance of an extremely talented person who gave his all to us, and he made his own difficult decision. My heart rests with Susanne and all of Phil’s extended family. And that, I expect and hope, includes all of us.
I also hope we can add additional and appropriate commemoration at the WoodenBoat Show this year without diluting in any way our tribute to William, John, and Pat Atkin. In so many ways — ways in which we may not be well-aware — we are all trying to accomplish the same goals, but in different ways.
At the end of the day… we all are together. And that is the goal we need to keep striving for, individually and collectively.
Godspeed, Phil. You will never leave us. On behalf of us all, Love, me, Carl

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Why can't the poor lobsterboat fixer-upper just out-and-out ask you, Suzanne, if he/she's having some difficulty glassing the deck? There's no one here can help. Suzanne, you yourself have been mining this hole for some weeks now and have yet to find one person with a particle of knowledge that might prove the least bit helpful.

Sorry, Suzanne, we're idiots all, and likely to remain so. Please leave us happy oysters in our bed and look elsewhere.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Well-crafted submission, Erster, despite the mittens...
But - for the umpteenth time - mismatch is your principle of responses.

- WoodenBoat's role in this is not at issue in this Thread.
(And, your hiding behind this notion won't work, as the shadow of your extra-large salt-shaker gives away your position in the under-brush.)

One notices the progressive urges on the part of some folks to go 'nuclear' - not just in private missives - but now in public as well. Have at it, 'gentlemen'... whom will I have first, with Lunch coming up.

GOOD HEAVENS, it'll be tea-time in no time.

Anyway, reasonable answers to reasonable proposals remain to be forth-coming...

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

No, no Ledger. As Boris Glump once so memorably penned somewhere - and I quote from memory here:" Idiot only is as Idiot speaks or posts..." Poor memory mine is at times.

There remains a somewhat Quiet Minority that has never indulged in your habit.

I thought about you as was was rehanging that lazy-Susan door.(where does this joke end... by Jove?) You sensed that tender moment, and promptly volunteered to offer your personal contribution today.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In light of my Personal Pact with Andrewe:

Back to the Thread at hand:

- Center-boards or not on commercial craft ?
Ours may well feature them, sometimes several...

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

No need to belabour your points, Susanne; the question has been asked and answered. I will repeat both for you:

Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?

No.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but I believe that I have made my opinion sufficiently clear to negate the need to debate additional points relative to the question.

Also, I would like you to directly address the request I have put to you in my post #234.

My "mousetrap" post was to suggest that, if you deem easily searchable on-line information regarding wooden commercial workboats very important, and the WBF is not providing this service, you could start such a forum and structure it so that it meets your criteria. If it is successful, we will all applaud you and direct our friends to it.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

A very quiet minority, it would appear.

Good luck with the door, them lazy susans can be a bitch.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

#238 still stands.


Back to the Thread at hand:

- Center-boards or not on commercial craft ?
Ours may well feature them, sometimes several...

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

With her? Not a chance. Without her? Gladly.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Im really feeling a rub here on two points.

1) Forumites have clearly and resoundingly offered their opinion that they do not want a working craft section, as the existing sections do not segregate craft at all. A downeast lobsterboat thats been working for a decade gets the same play as a tallship as a dink. Question answered.

2) What thread are you reading that is solely focused on aristocratic yachts? I've seen FAR more dinks, skiffs, and scrap ply boats on this site than any 40+ft balls of varnish. To assume that yachty boats are the only ones served is absurd. I am in the middle of a project that was abandoned 15 years ago by another gent, which happens to be a commercial sportfishing vessel. A real, honest workboat doing just that, work. I don't feel under served if I have a question, and I don't feel that a working watercraft forum would aide in that. My next project will be another commercial working vessel either 18 feet long or 26-30 feet long, depending on finances. I will still ask about designs in the design forum, and construction info in the building forum.

If the answer from the forumites AND the board administrators remains no, what point is left to argue Susanne?

E

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Alright Norm. So let's 'dance':
- Centerboard ? One, two... ?
- Bilgeboard ? One, two... ?
- Leeboard ? One, two ...?
- Daggerboard ? One, two...?
None ?
Keels ?

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Spokaloo,
reconsider posts
#195-#200
#226,
#227,
#238.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

You're looking for a spot to promote your business. Please reconsider Nos. 1-253.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Pointless, Yeadon.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

You're not really here for any other reason. Be honest.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Musta washed that sammich down with a little a that old autumn wine. :D

feelin' frisky, miss?

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

LOL. Jim. I've got her on ignore, so I don't see her posts (I strongly recommend it, BTW). Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the show of course. :D

- Norm

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Suzanne, I read the entire thing yesterday while at the station. My opinion still stands.

If the questions asked on the site and information presented already has a place, to add a working subgroup both segregates valuable information from the whole, and adds redundancy to the site itself.

My wife ( a 10 year web development veteran www.alyciastaggs.com ) makes the same statement when asked. She notes that to add a sub forum to an existing forum that can be covered without specificity to one person or subject makes no logical sense. If a web designer/developer gave the client a product that had redundancy and made the act of cutting information apart from a topic that is already gets seen in, they would be either working to fix the problem for free or they would lose the contract to a competitor.

It lacks logic.

E

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

I posted some views of your sustainable ply and Home Depot pink foam commercial 70 footer in post #19. It even has a centerboard and a drift brake. I thought you might like to expand on that and really discuss the boat - details, producibility, maintainability, the fish holds, stability curves, you know, all that good stuff that we're all interested in. But not a peep out of you on this boat in 200 plus posts??????

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Really? You for sure know not what you have typed for several hundreds[248 and counting] of posts on multiple threads. :eek::eek:

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

:(

I'm disappointed to watch the progression of this thread and some of the interpersonal jabs from those whose work I respect. There are a variety of creative people here with great backgrounds and experiences and I hope that they will each share in the richness of discussion here without attacking each other on any basis. As we've all learned around here, there is often more than one way to do things.

My personal thoughts on whether to add a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category would be "no". I think that it would be better to post the individual design study and the discussion that goes with it in individual threads. I think that this is a better way to go because the individual requirements to craft (working or pleasure) is really tailored to the needs of the operators and the particular requiremnents of the environment in which the boat will be used.

Also, the structure of the vBulletin software on which this forum is generously hosted by WoodenBoat, does not really lend itself to good searches from within the forum. (It is possible - Scot Bell and others have posted good ways to search the forum through external search engines to find the information that is being looked for by the user) A dedicated category would be no easier or harder to search than the rest of the forum.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

The fact that this threead has lasted this long, on all of the pages it was posted is, IMHO, a symptom of very poor website forum moderation skills.

Ludicrous!

The entire thread in all of it's incarnations is SPAM!!! :mad:

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

For a week or more there has been numerous here attempt to get the spamming of all the boat sections dealt with. Perfectly good threads dealing with wooden boats have been spammed with insults and off topic responses and continue to exists.

In the early going many seasoned boat guys attempted to swap issue oriented ideas and received some inflamatory responses and continue to do so. Even when no one was responding, blogging of insults continue. So how is this dealt with? What is the solution since its apparent that no one cares that the meat threads continue to be pushed aside. We have ask for some help and still no one is willing to step up and address this problem.
If any of you guys have any influence, please help clean this matter up.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

There is a subject that hasn't been broached yet, and it's been nagging at the back of my mind.

Whether you're a fan of Phil Bolger's design concepts or not, there is no denying Phil was one of the most influential naval architects of our generation. His body of work speaks for itself, his legacy seems secure.

However, I am quite concerned that the brilliance of the Bolger legacy will be tarnished beyond recognition by the abrasive and destructive voice of our poster.

Have you considered, Susanne, the damage you are doing? At last, at long last, have you no concern for Phil and how he is remembered? Is your own self-promotion so important that you would drag down a man of such stature?

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

I think this is one of the most bizarre threads I've ready on WB!

That said, and to answer the question "Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category?", my response is no, it should not.

While I wish the search engine on this forum was better/stronger etc. (such that it could allow for the compilation of subject related posts) - I've always been able to find the info I need, when I need it. There's many ways this could be improved, but on a cost/benefit basis for WB, methinks none would pass muster.

Fragmenting sub-forums further would dilute conversation within those forums and the forums would run the strong risk of becoming stale. Stale forums lead to decreased "usership" of a forum in general, which would eventually lead to this places demise. And that...would supremely suck.

So once again - no thanks to further fragmentation of the sub forums.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

I've been silently cogitating on the very same issue as Terry. I ordered, commissioned and sailed the perfect 21 footer, Dovekie #058, for many years and lost it in a divorce (I kept the Gazelle so it wasn't a bad trade). A few years ago I purchased plans for Bolger's Blackskimmer...still rolled up and yellowing but maybe someday...

But, I would have serious misgivings about buying into other of his designs if doing so meant dealing with this person.

My 2 cents, YMMV.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Phil would be quite impressed with the silly and non-substantive over 80% of the contributions amount to now; he might smile lamely at mine and calmly counsel me to leave those guys be as they are not worth it. He'd be right. The other 20% would get his attention.

His policy to not sell to or deal with all comers continues.
Some folks are at least mature enough to actually offer some name that sounds 'real' (one hopes...) for the Index. Self-selection has always been at the heart of the market-place.

As I promised Andrewe, I won't kid around anymore, if good contributions are offered in return.

So far here, no answers on lateral-plane issues...


And would somebody please free that Betty dear...

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Questions posed at #252. By #268+ nothing but flamboyant silly produced. Why even post, guys ?

Nah, it must be my animal-magnetism that you just can't resist...

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

And still no viable solution for any newbie actual or would-be commercial user of wooden craft finding any coherent body of info without overwhelming odds of noise burying any such endeavor.

Never mind being 'greeted' by folks like the last dozen postings or so... At Halloween - fine! Year-round - not so mellow...

If you are the (self-annointed) ambassadors of this WoodenBoat Forum to the world, who needs to consult the Mayan Calendar ? We're in the end-time of pointless/100% substance-free self-indulgence NOW.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

It's called Transference, my dear.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

In which dictionary?

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Over the years I have recommended to many new builders a number of the Bolger designs, principally Diablo, Bobcat, and the Light Dory.

Sadly, I cannot in good conscience continue recommending Bolger designs, knowing the new builder will have to deal with Susanne.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Now we are doing tear-jerkers. Wrestling that crocodile into that state of submission must have taken something.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

I wouldn't go so far as to call you a crocodile, dear. That would be rude.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

I totally agree.

This and its sister thread should have been closed pages ago by administartion. Its nothing else but crap.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Seconded!

Makes me wonder. Probably get scotted for this but needs to be said.

My grandmother's first husband who left us the land in Wyoming committed suicide. 1/2 the family believes it was because he and the McKinley family were involved in the Teapot dome scandal (frontier bankers all of them) and had their cousin the president's assassin paid for by the family.

The other half of the family says he did it to get away from my grandmother.

Lady (term used loosely) at your best you have done more to tarnish the reputation of one of my heros than all the naysayers of 80 some years combined.

At your worst which is what you seem determined to show this dedicated forum ........ I can not conceive of the damage you have singularly, by yourself, done to Phil's reputation.

Go away and let us continue to revere the man even if you are too self centered to do that yourself.

IF not, you will become the first person I have ever on 20 some odd forums over the course of time dating back over 30 years to darpa net put on IGNORE status.

Phil is one of my heros along with Tesla, Sam Colt, Einstein, Mstislav Rostropovich (I am a cellist) and a few more . Please let me keep him as a hero without your dragging his name into the muck with your endless self promoting vitriolic nonsense.

Chase
one big lifetime Bolger Fan

BTW my link bookmark to this entire forum takes me directly here to the to the designs/plans group. You personally have made that a daily upset to my Waah as my Nippon once girlfriend would call it. Go away and seek redemption elsewhere. Learn some basic manners and then come back welcomed.

on the other hand,

Our house and wife of 35 years and I are only 1.5 hours away up I93 and I89 from you. If you need help dealing with the loss of Phil come up and stay over at our ex REsort area (Lake Sunapee) boarding house. Maybe my wife (an excellent councilor) can help, maybe I as a Native healer/singer can help.

We have four empty bedrooms and gourmet food. You are welcome to partake any time. You can also call me on land line to talk,my number is well posted Susanne. Please get the help from someone, anyone, that you seem to need to deal with your loss.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Move over Chase, I may be next to get "Scotted";

While the main thrust of this thread has been interesting and the intentions noble(save the fish,save the fisherman,save the boatbuilders,save the planet etc...) I hardly believe these savings will occur through the woodenboat forum or any other internet forum.Technology breaks down, data is lost, and forums come and go in their various forms.

However, as the remaining partner in the design office of PCB&F's, it would appear to me that with the finite and limited resources available to you, energies would be better spent clearing up the back-log of design commissions,some left left hanging for a number of years now, properly cataloging Mr.Bolgers life works, making arrangments for their ultimate archiving in a recognized maritime museum specialized in holding the collected works of reknowned designers for the sake of future generations and finally, market his designs properly,whether through a web presence or comprehensive catalogue. A fair number of years have past where I've heard this last bit lament repeated so many times on the Bolger Yahoo Group it almost leaves me wondering if anyone is actually listening.

These efforts at "putting your house in order" will have a much more permanent effect at preserving the name, reputation and works of what alot of us consider"our hero".

We can all gather for beers afterward to solve the worlds' problems.



Sincerely,


Peter Lenihan
Montreal,Quebec
Surf,Micro and Windermere builder and a big fan of PCB.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

Oh, it's only you, Peter.

For a minute there, I thought I heard the Silent Ones speak.

Carry on.

Re: Should this Forum have a dedicated Wooden Working Craft category ?
 

New here, online since the 300baud modem. Not trying to be an @$$#0L3, it just comes naturally, but am certain at least two folks in this thread know how to use the P.M. feature. As a former perl programmer who has spent countless hours in a cubicle sorting out software similar to this in the last century my vote would be more liberal use of the PM feature all around. Some poor maintenance programmers probably worked themselves half way into despair making it work after the ubergeek came up with the idea and laid down some half @$$ almost working code.......